The 101 Association, Inc.
For the preservation and enjoyment of 1928 to 1931 Indian Scout Motocycles
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Looking for 101 Drive Gear

  • 24 Aug 2016 12:44 AM
    Message # 4206913
    Deleted user

    I am looking for a good crankshaft/drive shaft gear with 33 teeth for a 101 engine with 45 ci. The hole in the front should be about 16,5mm or 0.65" diameter and on the back about 20.5mm or 0.807”. The drive gear I have is apparently for an early Chief that has a bigger taper of almost 22mm or 0.866” on the back. As you can see from the photo the taper is too big.


    Last modified: 24 Aug 2016 12:46 AM | Deleted user
  • 24 Aug 2016 12:09 PM
    Reply # 4208192 on 4206913

    Hi Ralph,

    Have you considered getting a cone precision machined up in steel to bring the gear doen to 101 size? After machining to size a keyway slot would have to be added. The gear you have looks too good for the junk box !!

    The cone would have to be loctited to the gear  and/or possibly brazed at each end for safety, although this operation could soften the teeth .

    I looked around for nearly a year for a second hand primary gear for my bike, but gave up looking in the end and kept with the 90% ok original. I too have a chief gear here.

  • 25 Aug 2016 1:24 AM
    Reply # 4209537 on 4206913

     Warning: if you use a shim sleeve or for that case anything tapered locking together is not to use any kind of oil, grease or locktite! The cone type shaft-hub connection is self locking by friction. It must in every case be assembled dry because the capillary action is pulling in a layer of the substance between the parts that for one reduces the friction between the parts! (even locktite) and secondly will not allow the parts to locate accurately.

    This area of the crankshaft might be of more importance than one thinks. I have been pondering about the reoccuring problem with Indian motors, that of the piston pins pounding loose the pin lock and pin touching the cylinder wall. For that to happen the only reason I can think of is that the rods is vibrating from side to side and pushes the pin against the locks. That can have a number of causes, crooked rods, cylinder base kiltered or crooked bore, etc. but for many engines that is not the case, so why is this happening?

    I had an engine with new everything except crankshaft halves, and drive gear, and "everything" checked out twice to the tee, but it still happened.(everything checked except the crank pin relation and drive gear contact paths, because lack of equipment)

    Well, I don't know for certain but the crankshaft has to make the rods to oscillate from side to side and I can only think of 3 causes for that. The crankpin is not perfectly in line with the crankshaft, there is an excessive play in the crankshaft bearings or the drive gear is not centered.

    If the gear is not centered, because of the helical gear there is a constant light pressure to one side, light because the angle of our gears are shallow, but if there is any unevenness in the contact path of the gears, that pressure is shifting and the crankshaft is pulsating in and out or up and down. Not much, but the force is transfered to the top of the rod.

    Thoughts and opinions about this is appreciated.


    Last modified: 25 Aug 2016 2:17 AM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 25 Aug 2016 3:21 AM
    Reply # 4209719 on 4206913

    I should have added that a deeper key would be needed if a sleeve was made.

    I wonder what George would have done faced with the same circumstances ?

    Mike.

  • 25 Aug 2016 3:28 AM
    Reply # 4209729 on 4206913
    Check Vintage cycle bay.. http://www.vintagecyclebay.com/detail.asp?id=89373&n=Original20B101928-31Scout-33Tooth-Motor-Drive-Gear-Ref-1

    He's got at the present 5 Scout gears for sale


  • 25 Aug 2016 7:35 AM
    Reply # 4210052 on 4206913

    Carl-Erik, don’t forget that when the power is shut off, and the engine goes from drive to overrun, the crankshaft goes from driving to driven.  The sideload caused by the helical gears will reverse direction in this case, maybe more significant to the wrist pin walking you describe.

    I can’t recall whether it’s in the R&O or not, or even if it’s applicable to 101 motors and excuse me if I’m covering well-trodden ground, but I have cured this issue on other motors (Russian flathead motors suffer from this) by removing the legs from wire type wrist pin clips, and grinding a 45° angle on the outer circumferences of the wrist pin.  Wrist pin lateral movement then holds the clip into its groove rather than forcing it out.

    Last modified: 25 Aug 2016 7:35 AM | Stuart Morgan
  • 25 Aug 2016 8:06 AM
    Reply # 4210090 on 4206913
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    Mike, George would have found the correct gear, he was not one for interesting alternative creative solutions. 

    Ears are fine if bent out slightly to avoid contact with wristpin, chamfering of crankpin necessary.Accurately assembled flywheels and correct endfloat also essential, as Carl-Erik points out.  

  • 26 Aug 2016 4:38 AM
    Reply # 4211636 on 4210052
    Stuart Morgan wrote:

    when the power is shut off, and the engine goes from drive to overrun, the crankshaft goes from driving to driven. 

    Well that is relatively once in a while you power on and off if compared to the revolutions a engine makes, so the constant pounding from loaded to unloaded in every combustion pulsation is more wearing. It has to be rods vibrating that makes this kind of damage in my opinion. The damage when the lock wears the groove wide does not come from a intermittent big push but from gradual wear and a constant vibrating force upon it.

    I had C clips in my pistons, no tangs at all, chamfered pin ends with fairly small play between the pin end and clip. I had to scrap the pistons because the pins had pushed on the clips so much that the grooves on both sides was twice the width from the start (and I am not using the crankshaft or the gear anymore until I have tools to check those).

    The engine was blueprinted partly by me but also by a trusted machinist, crankcase cylinder surface planed, races honed and checked twice. All shafts and bearings new, cylinders new but checked and shaved for straightness, piston play and ring gap ok, all play as recommended, rods new races and bushings, straightened to 1/1000mm straight and rechecked. And of course the crankshaft was straight to the Tee. I did the assembly all within or better than specifications (sorry but stupidly enough I don't have all measures written down)

    The only thing not checked by me was the work the machinist did due to my lack of jigs and tools, and the crankpin relation to crankshaft and drive gear concentricity and contact path. I am out of ideas. Maybe I am looking at the wrong end, maybe it is the cam side that is the culprit but I don't belive that. Some engines encounter the same problem but some does never have this kind of problem. Maybe the symptom can be concealed or hidden with a larger play at the pin bushing, but that doesn't solve the enigma.

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