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For the preservation and enjoyment of 1928 to 1931 Indian Scout Motocycles
"You can't wear out an Indian Scout"
 

Oil spill, Indian 101

  • 29 Mar 2024 9:43 AM
    Message # 13336373

    I have a 1930 Indian 101 Scout, 45 ci. The motorcycle was bought new at Rjukan in Norway in 1930 and registered as a 2 seater. I don't have a motorcycle license myself, but I still enjoy starting it 1-2 times every summer and doing a little lap in the yard at home. I always check the oil level via the level screw on the engine before starting. Although the oil level here is correct, during the last drives it has thrown out a relatively large amount of oil, especially via the pipe marked in the attached picture. What could be the cause of this and is there any (hopefully) simple way to fix it? It didn't throw out that much oil before.

    3 files
  • 30 Mar 2024 12:37 AM
    Reply # 13336690 on 13336373
    Steinar Møll wrote:

    I have a 1930 Indian 101 Scout, 45 ci. The motorcycle was bought new at Rjukan in Norway in 1930 and registered as a 2 seater. I don't have a motorcycle license myself, but I still enjoy starting it 1-2 times every summer and doing a little lap in the yard at home. I always check the oil level via the level screw on the engine before starting. Although the oil level here is correct, during the last drives it has thrown out a relatively large amount of oil, especially via the pipe marked in the attached picture. What could be the cause of this and is there any (hopefully) simple way to fix it? It didn't throw out that much oil before.

    he crankcase oil level  is correct  my first sugestion  would be get a clear piece   of   plastic tubing   thats a tight fit on the breather tube    You marked      Long enough you  can blow and suck on    Blowing inwards  should  be  very restricted  and sucking should be easy    , This will  tell  you if the breather disk is  eithier stuck or missing  .  
  • 30 Mar 2024 5:33 AM
    Reply # 13336715 on 13336373

    When you run the engine, if it is blowing hard or smoking through the ventilation pipe, there is excess crankcase pressure that can indicate a piston ring stuck or broken.

    I would modify an old sparkplug or compression tester hose, and put a bit of compressed air into the cylinder when piston is at top dead center with both valves closed, and listen for excessive air leak at the vent pipe. The valves tightness is tested at the same time, a hissing in the carburetor or exhaust pipe indicates valve leak.

    However only after proper diagnostic investigation, (a broken piston ring or minor valve leak may not be visible, only audible) lifting the heads and clean off carbon is a periodic service on these engines.

    Pistons turned to bottom dead center and cylinder wear, score, crack or other damage should/must be checked thoroughly at the same time. An randomly occuring problem with these engines is piston pin circlips popping out and scoring cylinders.

    1 file
    Last modified: 31 Mar 2024 7:31 AM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 30 Mar 2024 8:21 AM
    Reply # 13336733 on 13336373

    I'm not much of an expert, but ...

    For the owner:

    The oil is blowing out the crankcase breather. Some oil normally blows out here when the crankcase is under pressure by descending pistons. Under the cover of the breather there should be a small, thin loose metal disc that covers the breather hole when sucked in when pistons rise and is pushed off the hole by air pressure when pistons descend (to relieve pressure - and oil normally goes out with it).  That's its purpose. Excess oil blowing out here is usually due to accumulating too much oil in the crankcase from either (1) sitting long periods and having oil leak through a worn oil pump - which is why you do a drain before you ride, or (2), excess oil passing through a worn oil pump WHILE riding even after you set the level with an initial drain. #2 has been happening with my 1931 101. The pump is too worn. ----- However, you also need to periodically clean out sludge that accumulates in the bottom of the crankcase. This 101 so infrequently ridden probably needs a good crankcase cleaning! This sludge with hardened particles can block the oil level drain hole giving you a false sense that you have drained excess oil when, in fact, you have not. The Old Skool method for doing this is to fill the crankcase with Kerosene (possibly that's "Lampe Oil" to you) and crank over the engine for a while without starting it. Then drain and refill to the proper level with oil. Repeat this drain circulation with oil again and drain again to remove residual kerosene followed with a final fill with oil to the proper level. Riding a bike often is good for it. Sitting not so good.

    For the others:

    I don't understand how a broken ring or stuck breather disk or other upper end cylinder problems can cause oil blow out (out the crankcase breather, but out the exhaust - yes) because the oil blowout out the crankcase breather must have a start with too much oil in the crankcase with that quantity of oil coming from the oil tank,  ring or cylinder wall issues cause oil and pressure to pass up into the combustion center and not immediately out the breather, and a stuck breather disk would not let this oil blow out.  

    Bob

    Last modified: 30 Mar 2024 8:33 AM | Robert Lodge
  • 30 Mar 2024 11:44 AM
    Reply # 13336777 on 13336373

    Thanks for all the replies. The engine probably has worn piston rings because there is relatively little compression in it, but in the past it has not thrown out more oil than you would expect from a motorcycle from 1930. I will try your tips and give feedback and probably more questions. Thanks!

  • 30 Mar 2024 8:44 PM
    Reply # 13336881 on 13336373

    A very informative and easy to use tool to own is a compression leak down tester. No trying to kick up pressure for a cylinder compression test. This tool involves using compressed air thru a fitting in place of a spark plug and measures pressure loss over time in a special way, whether thru rings, valve guides, head gaskets, cracks in head or cylinder, etc. A comprehensive engine health check-up tool.  Due to limited clearance between heads and bottom of tanks, you will probably need to fabricate a brass 90 degree fitting to fit in there as these tools seem to expect you have overhead clearance above an automobile engine.

  • 31 Mar 2024 6:11 AM
    Reply # 13336919 on 13336373

    Good advice from Robert. The oil is churned up and frothing when the engine runs, covering more or less all areas inside the engine. Upper cam cover is less covered with oil, but excessive crankcase pressure push oil laden air out wherever it can. 

    I don't think Steinar has a problem with a stuck breather disc, but if and when the breather disc is stuck, in most cases it does not stick against the crankcase as that is a flat surface and crankcase compression is pushing the disc into the housing and 'open' position.

    Of course you can find occations where the disc is stuck in the gasket or parting line between the housing and crankcase in closed or partly closed position, but the disc I think, does more times stick in the brass housing where the disc support ledge is worn.

    Be adviced no gasket should be used for the breather housing, just a thin layer of sealant, in order to avoid the disc hanging up.

    Therefore when the disc is stuck in the open position (or removed for some reason) you can feel the air going both in and out of the breather tube. Normally most air is directed out of the tube and a clicking noise is faintly heard when the breather disc is moving back and forth hitting the flat sealing surface in the crankcase.

    If the disc is stuck in the closed position, the crankcase pressure push excess oil out of all other orifices and oil leaks appear, magneto shaft hole, valve lifter mushrooms, pressure in the clutch and gearbox compartments, generator gear drive shaft, clutch lever shaft and all gasket surfaces that are not tight enough...  

    Last modified: 31 Mar 2024 7:20 AM | Carl-Erik Renquist
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