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Specs

  • 23 Feb 2024 11:17 AM
    Message # 13319910

    Does anybody know what the flywheel endplay spec is? With and without the primary drive gear. Also if anyone knows the spec for the endplay of the primary idler gear I could use that also. Thanks

  • 24 Feb 2024 11:55 AM
    Reply # 13320326 on 13319910

    First of all, stock up with several cork rings. They frettle, or sliver or shrink or break..or ground too thin and if not, they wear out. Accept only a good dense quality cork. Stock up with (good hardened) thrust washers of the various od. and id. in the engine, thick if you have a surface grinder or buy different thickness.

    I set rods .020 total clearance in the flywheels and (- that) between each other. I recon they are 95% splash lubricated so I don't want any tighter. It would be tighter fit if it was positive oil fed through the crankpin as with later Indian oil pumps. Check also that the rod bushing has ample side clearences in the piston. A caveat in general...clearances is better to have on the plus side than on the tight side.

    Flywheels internal crankcase total clearance .020" (0,5mm) Then set clearance in the left side crancase to .010(+) (0,25mm+) with the outer washer between the case and drive gear. 

    When the internal clearance is at spec at .020", (and rods centered in the spigot, obs the dividing line is not in center) mount the drive gear and torque to 70-80 ft.lbs. (8-9Nm) Measure distance between case and gear. Subtract .010"(+) and that is the thickness the thrust washer should have. Grind the washer thickness. Turn the washer ground surface against the gear. Grind, reinstall, check and repeat..

    When that .010"(+) measure is at spec, install thrust washer and cork, torque the gear and check with poking with a screwdriver that the washer can be brought to turn with some but not too much resistance.

    If not, remove the gear and with the cork in place in the gear, on sandpaper stuck on a flat surface, very very gentle sand down the cork just a little at a time and as equal flat all around as possible.

    Because of sand grit stuck in the cork, take out and turn over the cork in the groove if possible without ruining it, mount and check resistance again. Grind, reinstall, check and repeat.. If the cork become too thin you have to replace it or cut a ring of gasket material to shim behind the cork.

    Clean up and pre-oil the crankcase bearing before final assembly. Secure the gear center nut with a keyed bend-over washer. Or strong locktite. Or both..

    A gear tool is very handy to have. A few broken drill rods welded in a ring..And a gear puller, please don't tap on the gear or shaft with a hammer..

    The clutch transmission idler- or primary idler gear should also have .020 total sideplay.

    2 files
    Last modified: 26 Feb 2024 7:34 AM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 25 Feb 2024 7:20 AM
    Reply # 13320485 on 13319910
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    Yup, what Carl-Erik said, I would start at around 15-18 thou before reducing with the drive gear. The reason for this last adjustment is that under load the primary gears tend to thrust the crank assembly to the right, and the timing side bearing housing can overheat if the crank ends up running on this face, so a few thou to step it to the drive side prevents this, so that under heavy acceleration after run in, the rhs thrust washer on the crank may just kiss the timing side housing, but not run against it all the time. Not uncommon to see a relatively new motor with a badly blued up timing side housing and resultant damage to pin and bearings where it has been put together without attention to detail.

    0.010"-0.012" is a good ballpark rule of thumb for end float between the rods themseves, between the female rod and the flywheels, crank assembly in cases after drive gear adjustment, and idler gear. Well run in motors can be found performing fine with a lot more than this, but really should NOT be less than this in any circumstance. If the idler gear in the primary is too sloppy, it can end up causing a harmonic shudder at certain revs.

  • 26 Feb 2024 7:20 AM
    Reply # 13320797 on 13319910

    Go with what Tim says, he's got more experience than me. I've only put together my own engines and Tim has assembled far more customer engines and been long time prentice with experts. I edit my earlier reply with some pluses and minuses...

    What is not really clear is the side play at the idler gear, do you set it as tight as .010-.012? It spins awfully fast, but it might be that the aluminium covers expand with heat, adding to the sideplay. What I don't skimp on is the radial play in that gear of .0015-.0020" and snug fitting of the shaft in the bushings. That shaft ideally should be shrink fit in the bushing of the inner cover...I think.

    Last modified: 26 Feb 2024 8:06 AM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 26 Feb 2024 11:16 AM
    Reply # 13320919 on 13319910

    Ok thanks guys that helps,I usually set my end play at.015 and then set up the final end play at .010 with the gear so I will loosen it up a touch. I had the idler gear set at .015 initially before posted this question so would it be wise to set it up a little tighter? Thanks again 

  • 27 Feb 2024 6:53 PM
    Reply # 13321711 on 13319910
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    No, a little freer the better. Easy to have it tighten up with final tightening of bolts, so check and recheck, and when trans is on, check free play in whole primary by rocking clutch basket thru genny drive opening.

  • 02 Mar 2024 8:25 AM
    Reply # 13323600 on 13319910
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    Been musing on this question for a few days, and feel I should add a caveat.

    Service shot number 5, from 1927, states that the side clearance on the conrods should be 0.015"-0.025". When I mentioned that I use a lower figure, I should have mentioned that that is usually when everything has been renewed, and I am using new flywheels. If the attention to detail is spot on, and your flywheel assembly is showing 0.001" run out, as is possible with T and O flywheels, a slightly lower figure and careful running in should be fine. Attention to detail is the name of the game here, before the drive side cork washer is fitted, the bottom end should rotate freely with absolutely no tight spots or resistance. I usually find that I have to hone the housings before I but them in the cases to ensure that they are perfectly true, for some reason the drive side often comes out barrel shaped, and the timing side is often fractionally tighter on the outward side, and a quick hone before fitting seems to cure this.  I have rarely found an original pair of flywheels that will make up to such good specs, the best seem to have 0.002-0.003 run out when trued, and traditional manipulation of the flywheels by clamping or wedging seems to be a temporary fix, they seem to move back to where they want to be after time, and you are probably damaging the tapers in the adjustment process. 

    The upshot of all this is, that a slightly loose motor will run fine and may accelerate wear over thousands of miles, but a motor fractionally too tight will go bang expensively.

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